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You can buy the whole set of needle files for £15, it includes 2 x Pippin files + you get all the others, one of which is a joint round edge file. That's about the cost of one LMI Pippin file by the time you've factored in the shipping! It's not much more than the cost of one single joint round edge file - one of which is included. Unfortunately it doesn't tell us the gauge. For the price you get a lot for not much money.
A Pippin file is/was used by locksmiths. It's kind of a tapered oval shape. It does take practice to judge the right 'gauge' but it's hardly rocket science. You can practice on wooden blank Nuts - Ebony or any hardwood is good. Even a triangular file can be used for the thin strings as they tend to give a rounded slot to the bottom, at least under magnification the ones that I have do.
I use a very fine round needle file, even though I have the above but only because I've been using one for years. The tip on these are incredibly easy to break if you are too heavy handed. The last one I broke I converted to a joint round edge file on a grinder. There's many ways to get there, the gauged Nut files probably make things a little quicker but my strings go from 0.42 mm's to BIG. I would need a lot of gauged Nut files to cover all of them. It's just easier for me to use a single needle file. The gauged Nut files will not give better Nut action. Nut action is a product of how low (or high) you go in respect of the fret heights. No file will do that for you automatically.

thanks Michael, I've orderded the assortment as They've got to be worth a go for the money! I understand the aim when nut slotting, I did my first few using an assorted box of diamond dremel attachments held by hand. Got a good playing nut in the end but far too much work! I'll see how i get on with these...

I have been using the same cheap needle files for 25 years now. With a simple rolling technique you can get the profile you want. I like to use 20x lenses to look in real close to make sure it's right. Maybe it's a bit more work but after hundreds of set ups it's second nature now. I've always thought about getting a proper set when I place orders but then just think... why bother. ymmv

With the amount we spend on other tools, wood (that we may re-sell anyway), and expendable supplies, I can't imagine being unwilling to get a set of nut files.

I personally want my guitars to play like velvet because I know I'll enjoy playing them that much more if they do. There aren't that many essential tools when it comes to setups, so it's hard to imagine holding out on one that can make such an impact. Especially when it's relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other things we use.


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The double sided Hiroshima files are good and relatively inexpensive at about $60 for a set of 3. Available from LMI and others.

I did it with needle files and rolling technique etc for about 10 years before giving in and getting some nut files. While it's perfectly possible to do it the old fashioned way and get good results, gauged nut files sure make it faster and easier. I'm frankly skeptical of the need for many of the specialized tools available today, but nut files are worth it. They're pretty cheap for how helpful they are.

Sure lots of ways to do things....

As some of you know we see more guitars that we work on in a month than most do in far more time. Some of these are small luthier built and some are of course f*ctory guitars. You can tell who has nut files including the f*ctories and who does not..... Reason being the nut slots may...........................................................suck.....

What constitutes a lousy nut slot you may ask? Here are some of the things that we see:

1) Hump in middle of slot with the slot at the nut face barely angled at all. What results is the vibrating wave of the string breaches the nut face since the angle is so shallow and you may get a sitar sound OR you may only get the sitar sound when the string is plucked pretty hard.

Causation: Often it's either user error or not using a file that is straight and rigid. Abrasive cord including using an old string can result in this too and if you noticed abrasive cord and old strings are not rigid either and will apply way more force to the two entry and exit points than in the middle of the slot hence the hump. Ravi Shankar would be proud....

2) V shaped slots. Another result of the one trick pony approach to tools and nut files. Pardon my bluntness but I'm firmly in the camp of doing great work or go home.... The V shaped slots bind and the binding can result in that nasty "ping" noise when tuning where the pitch jumps and the transition is not at all smooth as the tension is decreased or increased.

V shaped slots also can be a one trick pony of sorts too in so much as if the steward of the instrument wants to change strings to something lighter the nut slots can be too low now requiring a new nut (on a new instrument) or a filled nut on a repair, shimmed is a possibility too.

3) Although not related a great deal to what tool is used poor spacing, arbitrary angles, lack of symmetry etc. all indicating sloppy workmanship.

Personally nut crafting including nut slots to me are VERY important to get right and you would be very surprised just how few guitars actually have a well made, well seated, sized to fit well and look great nuts. And.... everyone seems to leave nut slots way too high as well..

As always folks should do what ever you wish, makes no difference to me.... but I am unaware of any pros at all who make their livings in the trade who do not use dedicated nut files. There is a reason for this - dedicated nut files work great...

And really lastly for me in this post after all that time and effort, the labor of love tirelessly crafting the heirloom instrument and all the pride that one may take in playing, gifting, selling, sharing the guitar, mando, etc. when it's completed - why be a cheap bastage now??????

One more thing to add
if you want the nut to look old drop it in a cup of tea for about 10 minutes

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Somehow I detect this nonsense that a good Nut cannot be formed without the use of Nut files.
It is just that: nonsense.

Assuming you mean a cup of black tea two questions, does it have to be hot and does it last for ever?

I'd love a proper set of nut files but a baby and a minimum wage job mean I need to save where I can thanks for the advice and instruction from all.

With the disclosure that I do NOT do repair work, or dozens of nuts a week, I can recommend a cheap alternative. I use a GOOD razor saw, but a good needle file to cut the same slot for all six strings. Then I use CHEAP ebay "nut files" to widen the slots and put a rounded floor in.

The cheap files cut very poorly. You end up making mistakes if you are trying to cut a 58 thou slot. But they are good enough to widen a well cut slot.


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Can't argue with that!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Yes, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Sloane, McCleod/Welford, Doubtfire, Cumpiano, Courtnall (I think), Van Edwards all used a needle file. In fact in the days of yore I can't remember one single person using anything but a needle file. Somehow we managed and I don't recall Segovia or Bream playing the Sitar.

Someone really has too much time on his hands.

Faster. . not better. That depends on one's skill. I obviously have it.
You could also spend some of that spare time learning how to resize pictures. Save some of us having to scroll half way across the Atlantic. Oh and spend some of it on how you would solve Mike's problem of not being able to complete a Nut without spending the babies food money!

This is a process that has been used by many new comers, of course its a KMG variation of what's been done for many years -- feedback has been positive.

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/zerofret.html

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Easy guys.

Offering ideas on this thread seems risky now but here goes.

I find few things as annoying as a crappy nut file but:
If you wrap a piece of p320 216u paper around a .013" nut file it makes a good .031" one ,etc.
It works with feeler gauges too. Just measure the thickness of the paper with your calipers,( your crappy ones from home Despot, not your nice Mitutoyo's), double it and add the feeler gauge or nut fie of you choice.
This actually makes large nut files for Cello's and basses rounder and smoother in addition to adding sizes.
The small files up to about .025" I see no good substitute for but the paper can lessen the number of larger ones you need.
And I know the cavemen had a hard time finding self stick sandpaper but at least a roll or too of the good stuff has many other uses.

My grandfather taught me that if you have a head ache then drop a big rock on your toe. I guess that was the version 2.0 upgrade to the caveman method

The zero fret is the option I have used to good effect for a while now. I'll get around to investing in nut files soon but until then, it has served me well. It makes it easier to get a good setup (by removing one variable all together) for a beginner too. Unfortunately, in the OPs case it is not an option because the guitar was already made withour a zero fret.

Many a nut has been cut without the dedicated files (the gauged files are relatively new option) but I certainly lacked the skills to do it well in my early attempts. I suppose things could have gone differently for me if I had someone with the skill to stand over me and guide me on the first several attempts. The text only descriptions of how to do it aren't 100% compatible with the way my brain works. Are there any video tutes showing the actual stroke techniques out there?

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Sometimes when I don't have a headache, I will repeatedly hit myself in the head with a small hammer because it feels so good when I stop.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Seriously, it's not at all difficult. Do as I suggested previously: a bit of dense hardwood (roughly Nut sized) and practice. Use a feeler gauge set to test your results. After a while it should become second nature.
This is not a long winded laborious task. You are only filing to an average of some 0.7 mm's depth. I can slot a Nut in around 5 minutes - assuming the Nut is at the correct height to begin with. That's hardly a huge time sink. Besides, the OP did ask for inexpensive Nut file recommendations.

As the OP here, I want to say thanks for your amazing feedback in this thread. I'm going to post another tonight about a setup problem I'm experiencing. Be gentle: I'm a total newb making mistakes as I go -- but slowly learning.

For those who want to follow my suffering, here's a link to the new thread:

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45665&p=604653#p604653

Thanks Very Much!

We look forward to helping any way we can!